Armed robbers in hallowed chambers: Obasanjo may have his facts –Senator Mantu

Posted by admin House, Legislature, Senate Monday, June 18th, 2012

At a recent public function, former president, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, described federal lawmakers in unsavoury terms. To use his words: ‘‘Rogues, armed robbers are in the states and National Assemblies, what sort of laws will they make…?’’
It was a remark that generated scathing criticisms for the former president from both chambers of National Assembly and the public. But in an interview with Daily Sun, Senator Ibrahim Mantu, who once occupied the exalted seat of Deputy Senate President, declares that Chief Olusegun Obasanjo is not known for flippant allegation and may have his facts.

“ I believe that he may have his facts and so it is important that the National Assembly actually set up a committee to investigate those allegations and then give Obasanjo the opportunity of naming the armed robbers because he cannot say all of them are armed robbers; definitely we know some very, very highly respectable people in the National Assembly and maybe, there are some that we don’t know that he knows to be armed robbers.’’

Excerpts: You were former Deputy Senate President; can you tell us, your experience and how is life outside public office? Well, it has been very, very exciting in a way, in the sense that it is like a different world altogether. From my public glare, everyday you wake up fully engaged and now, all of a sudden you have all the time in the world to yourself and the day looks younger than usual.

But in those days, the day was shorter than usual, the night was shorter than usual when I was in office. But today, it is a different world. But it gives you time to meditate, to think deeply, reflect on issues: reflect on your performance , past and present, focus on opportunities and so on and so forth.

It has been a great time, because I am going through totally different experience and in a way I must tell you frankly, that I thank God for the opportunity He gave me to be out of office. I am sure, when you look at me I am looking very fresh compared to what I was going through, after all, I am supposed to be ageing, not getting younger.

So, we thank God for His mercies; it has been quite good. As a politician, people still cluster around you; now, do you play the role of a godfather, an adviser, to some people, or you are still itching to seek political office? You see, actually since I left office in 2007 I have been living my very quiet life. Of course, as you say, there are people who have become part and parcel of ones political family; these people still come to you, for one thing or the other.

You attend social event, like their wife has given birth, or wedding, you must identify with them and so on and so forth. So, definitely you cannot totally say you will detach yourself from the people. It isn’t possible, having risen to this level in politics.

But I can say that all these things I am telling you are now history; history, in the sense that since Bamanga Tukur declared interest to be national chairman of our party, he came and brought me out of my sabbatical and we went round the nation and he was elected as chairman. Of course, it wasn’t easy actually for me to agree to join his campaign organization, because like I said, I was enjoying my rest, it was I didn’t want really to come to this kind of public life again—the confusion and what have you.

But one thing struck me, when I asked him, ‘why do you want to be national chairman of PDP?’ He said to me, ‘look, I am founding member of this party, I am founding father of this party, even my own personal property was the first PDP secretariat in Abuja . It was from my personal building that they moved to Wadata Plaza and so it pains me, to see that the aims and objectives behind our forming the PDP are totally destroyed—they are no longer there and as long as I am still useful, alive and alert I will like to restore the lost glory of the party.’’

And because I have also watched the PDP dying, I know that somebody would come and bring it back to life, resurrect it back to life, then that person needs everybody’s support—all well meaning members of the party to actually lend their hands, lend their voice— whatever they can do, all hands must be on deck in order to ensure that somebody who can actually bring the party back to glory is assisted and that’s why I had to accept to be the chairman of his campaign organization and of course, since we started going round there was no hiding place again, because we had to go out, sell our product, who is the chairman and of course, bring somebody who has been there before.

Bamanga Tukur, as you know is the man, who actually turned around our sea ports; he was the first governor of old Gongola state which is now made up of Adamawa and Taraba . Some of these people who are governors were in primary school or so. So, this is one man one can say has seen it all and today, he is the Chairman of African Business Roundtable, which is an NGO, recognized by the United Nations and in that capacity, he is the only black man in the world that addresses the UN, without being a head of state.

So, with all these wealth of experience and contact, nationwide and globally, I felt that the PDP couldn’t have it better. We wanted actually somebody that the job needs, not somebody that needs the job.

And that person, was Bamanga and still remain Bamanga. So, now that we have successfully won the election and he is now national chairman, my job as member of advisory committee is to help him deliver.

So, again, as you know, I have outgrown every post at the party secretariat and what I do now is to advise. You must have read that some two weeks ago, he actually inaugurated a very high powered advisory committee to himself as party chairman. You can see the caliber of people in that committee; they are people that have a lot of experience in the politics of this nation.

So I think, with this kind of people, there is a lot of hope that we might achieve the objectives behind the coming out to rescue the party, his coming out to restore lost values; his coming back has a pay back also, because the nation has done so much for him.

But this advisory committee you just talked about of which you are a member, is generating disaffection as the PDP National Working Committee is divided over it; they see your committee, as likely to usurp the NWC.

What is your take on this? Well, the detractors of PDP has seen somebody who can actually turn around the party and they are coming with all sorts of negative publications. As you know, before Bamanga became national chairman, there was this negative publicity against him that he is too old for the job, he cannot make it.

As Chairman of African Business Roundtable, the job requires a lot of intellectual work and physical movement around the world and he is doing that, efficiently and now you say he cannot run a national party. But today, we have put that behind us, because the voters have said, no we believe in him.

Similarly, all these negative publicity that the advisory committee will usurp the powers of the working committee. No, the working committee is responsible for the-day-to-day running of the party affairs. The advisory committee is only to advise the chairman on issues that he wants to have some wealth of experience from people who actually have some experience.

You know Bamanga has been telling us, look, the PDP must be financially independent, if it is to do things that are supposed to be done in accordance with the constitution of the party. If the PDP isn’t financially independent, those who actually finance the music would be dictating the tune of the music. And that’s truth, because they say, he who pays the piper dictates the tune of the music and I agree with him.

Now, this is a new thinking—-nobody has come before and say, oh, the PDP must be financially independent, if we are really to do things right. Look, let me say this, I am a PDP member but I am sorry to say that there is no internal party democracy, not only in PDP, but in all the political parties.
What do I mean by that? Today, if there is going to be primary, innocent, ordinary members of the party, at the local level will come out and queue behind those that they love to represent them, either in the hot sun or in the rain. They will be there suffering, taking the heat and hunger and yet, the decision that they took in the field isn’t one that will be respected.

The Mantus and co., who are privileged, will sit down in the air conditioned room and change the names and then post different names to INEC because the person that was elected by the people isn’t the one they want .

That’s what is happening, but is that democracy? Democracy is about the right of the majority being honoured; democracy is about the right to choose and the peoples’ choice must be honoured, because the man with the majority must be respected. That’s what we want.

So, if somebody now comes out and say, look the first thing to do is to make sure that we look at ways and means of ensuring that this party is economically independent, because he wants to restore internal party democracy, he wants to respect the decision of the voters, that no longer again, should some powerful people sit in their air conditioned room and be deciding for the people, who to represent them. So, these are some of the things. If you look at ANC in South-Africa, they have economic empire and we want to study what they are doing.

How do we actually also borrow a leaf from them and also have our party to be financially independent, so that nobody again will be taking full charge of the party, because we now accuse the governors of taking full charge of the party.

Yes, they are doing so, because they are the ones that are funding the party. Now, if you don’t subject yourself to their whims and caprices, you will not realize anything. So, whether you like them, or you don’t like them, if they say sit, you sit well, if they say get up you say, how? All these are what we want to do away with, because we are supposed to be celebrating the endurance of democracy for thirteen good years, which is the first time in the history of this great nation, that democracy has endured for that long. It has never been so.

And so, we shall be celebrating also the deepening of democratic culture, but that isn’t the case. Yes, there are areas we are celebrating but the fundamental thing that makes democracy what it is, are areas that we haven’t make much progress. We have a long way to actually be there.

You must have read in the papers, the recent altercations between the Speaker of House of Representatives, Aminu Tambuwal and President Jonathan, where the President admonished the Speaker to respect party supremacy. I have also read in the papers today, where the House was threatening that bills that the President haven’t assented would be passed into law.

What do you make of this development? First of all, I would like to start by commending the cordial relationship that has existed between the executive and the legislature, since Yar’Adua came to power. If you recall, during our time, it was always every week we had problem with the executive, but they have been able to have a sustained cordial relationship which I think one must commend them.

Having said so, I would like to say that the executive and the legislature, they should see themselves as partners in progress. Yes, principle of separation of power make them separate, but they are actually three-in-one: the judiciary, the legislature and the executive.

It is these three arms of government that make up the government. So, if one part is sick, the whole body is sick and there should be no room for flexing muscle, because they should see themselves as servants of the people and the constitution has spelt out clearly the role of each arm of government. When each arm plays its role and responsibilities, then there would be no problem whatsoever.

The National Assembly makes laws for the good governance of the nation. These laws, some of them, as you know are executive laws which means that bills must have been sponsored by the executive to the National Assembly. So, whichever it is if that law would add value to governance, then the president and the national assembly must accelerate the process of making that law into an act of parliament, because every law has some importance but there are laws that one can say are more important than others.

Take for example, the laws that we passed in liberalizing the communication sub –sector, which gave birth to many companies participating in the delivery of communication service in Nigeria. Today, it has made communication much easier for us. If you recall, what we used to go through when NITEL was monopolizing communication.

But today you can reach any part of this country. Similarly, the law dealing with the energy sub-sector, electricity, even though it hasn’t totally achieved the kind of result that we have achieved in the communication sub-sector, you will find that as we have done in communication, we allow people to transmit, to generate, you will see that people will come in and put their private money in areas that they are specializing. Unless the laws are done to actually give adequate protection to those investors, nobody will come and invest in an area where his investment isn’t adequately protected by law.

So, you can see clearly that the laws are in different category. I have used these ones as examples of laws that actually add value to the quality of life of the people. So, the executive should also reciprocate by assenting to these laws as much as possible.

Now, if like in the days of Obasanjo, if he wasn’t going to attend to a law, he will send the bill back to us. But even then we didn’t use our veto power which we had, because the national assembly, if the President refuses to sign any act of parliament, we have a right to override him by vetoing that act and automatically, it becomes law, with, or without the President’s signature. But why didn’t you use that veto power then?

Was it because you were being circumspect not to overheat the polity, the crave for party supremacy, or the fear of Obasanjo? Well, maybe… I don’t think the national assembly feared Obasanjo at all, but to the contrary, I think we were more concerned about allowing the process to survive, because we didn’t want another intervention again, that could actually truncate democracy. So, there were many things we could have actually done but we refused to do them, because we weighed doing them, vis.-a -vis. not doing them which one would actually be better for the nation.

So, there were many times you have to weigh. If we want to flex muscles, when two elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers and who is the grass in this case, the Nigerian masses. So, we made sure that we didn’t want a situation, where we would take an action that would actually inflict more harm to the citizens of the nation.

Now, talking about party, I believe, like I said, what is required of all the arms of government is cooperation. If looking at things in the greater interest of the nation rather than trying to show who is actually stronger, in terms of what the provisions spelt out. More so, it was the PDP that produced the President, the PDP produced the Senate President, it produced the Speaker. There should be an avenue, where these three principals actually meet and discuss amicably, without anybody even having an idea of any disagreement among them.

These isn’t good; I don’t support them going to the public with their differences, because they are coming from the same stable. So, there shouldn’t be any kind of rancor that could actually threaten democracy. We don’t want that kind of thing.

Still on Obasanjo; at a recent event in Abuja here, he cast aspersion on the integrity of men in the national assembly. To use his words, ‘’rogues, armed robbers are in the state and national assemblies, what sort of laws will they make ?’’.

When you heard that having served as deputy senate president, how did you feel? Well, let me say this; that this isn’t the first time that we are getting, or hearing some prominent people, making such allegations.

Indeed, during my time one of us a senator, came out here and said there were armed robbers amongst us; he was a former police DIG and that during the time he was in Alagbon close, there were people here that he must have arrested or something like that.

We didn’t take that allegation lightly. Why? Because it was coming from somebody who was DIG, making that allegations, definitely it was weighty. We asked a committee to investigate that allegations. At the end of the day, he couldn’t produce anybody.

So, to me is like you call me an armed robber and if it were in a civilized society, and an investigation is carried out and I am not, you who called me will now be in soup, because you must have made false allegations. Just like the other senator alleged that there were armed robbers among us and when we set up a committee to investigate the allegation, he couldn’t substantiate his allegations with any proven records. Now, ordinarily he should have been disciplined, he should have been sanctioned, but then we just allowed it go.

When I wasn’t even there: 2007-2009, the same man again made allegations in that Senate and again, he had to withdraw it with an apology again after the investigations. Now, I don’t want Obasanjo’s allegations to go the way of that Senator. So, if I were in the National Assembly, we would take Obasanjo’s comments very seriously and set up a committee to investigate, give him the opportunity to prove his allegations because a former president of Nigeria cannot just make such flippant accusation.

I believe that he may have his facts and so it is important that the National Assembly actually set up a committee to investigate those allegations and then give Obasanjo the opportunity of naming the armed robbers, because he cannot say all of them are armed robbers, because definitely we know some very, very highly respectable people in the national assembly and maybe there are some that we don’t know that he knows them to be armed robbers.

So, Nigerians would like to know because I am sure he would be doing great service to the constituents of such armed robbers that made the mistake of electing armed robbers to represent them, because the next time they would be wiser to elect people who aren’t armed robbers because they wouldn’t like to be represented by somebody whose integrity is questionable .

Lastly, Obasanjo just of recent as well said he never planned for tenure elongation; that if he had wanted it God would have granted him. You were there in Senate in those uncertain days.

Was he privy to it? What actually transpired? I am sure Obasanjo brought you here! Well, in the first place, I was the Chairman of the Constitution Review Committee and so unfortunately people saw me as the arrow head of tenure elongation. That was the assumption of the Nigerian people.

I am glad that this controversy has now come back again to limelight and I am glad that Obasanjo has spoken the way he has spoken and somebody responded. You didn’t say what the former Senate President said when Obasanjo said so.

So, facts are coming out. First and foremost, this seeming conflict on this matter has given me the opportunity to wash myself clean before the eyes of the people, because everybody in Nigeria saw Mantu as the arrow head of tenure elongation and my second name was third term at that time.

Now, I have been asked by the press as to, whether what Obasanjo said that he didn’t look for it and that if he had looked for it, God would have granted him, because nothing he has asked God that He hasn’t granted him.

Now, I cannot argue that, because I didn’t know those things he has asked God in the past that God granted and those that God didn’t grant, but I believe that he is a unique Nigerian, because, one he was a military head of state and ironically, he has never been a politician and he became an elected president. Very strange indeed because elected presidency is for politicians, who actually contest and win elections. But this man, people went and begged him to come and take the ticket of PDP and he eventually was elected as president.

So, he is unique because he is the only Nigerian, that I know of that was a military head of state and also became an elected president of this country and spent his full two term as provided for by our constitution.

Again, I know that he is the only one that I know of that was actually condemned to death and his death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment and from life imprisonment, he was now brought out free, amnestied, totally without anything, because ordinarily, if somebody is condemned to death and they reduce it to life sentence, he would be jubilating – that at least he wouldn’t be killed. But his death sentence wasn’t only commuted to life imprisonment, but he was brought out of prison and became president. Now, this is unusual. It is only usual with politicians. So, I think he has every room to say God has granted him everything he asked for.

Now, I don’t know, whether he asked God, or didn’t ask God. I am not a mind reader, all I can say is, in my capacity as chairman of the CRC, did he ask me to bend the rule, in order to accommodate his interest? The answer is no. He didn’t ask me to bend the rules in order to accommodate his interest.

His foot soldiers didn’t approach you? Well, we are talking about Obasanjo. He didn’t ask me as chairman of CRC because that was under my complete control and since he was supposed to elongate his tenure, according to the allegation, constitutionally and wanted an amendment of the constitution to change two terms to four years to three terms of four years, Obasanjo never asked me to bend the rules to accommodate his interest.

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Posted by admin on Jun 18 2012. Filed under House, Legislature, Senate. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry