North, South breaking apart –Agbakoba

Posted by admin North-Central, North-East, North-West, South-East, South-South, South-West Sunday, March 11th, 2012

Sunday, March 11, 2012

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That former president of Nigeria Bar Association (NBA), Mr Olisa Agbakoba, is a household name in Nigeria is not contestable. He has not only been around but always speaks out on every national issue no matter how the odds are stacked. In the human rights community, his antecedents speak volumes. He bares his mind here on various issues of national importance. Excerpts…

With the level of uncertainty in the air following activities of the Boko Haram sect, how do you feel today as a Nigerian?
How I feel is that I am from a country of opportunity, immense natural resources and monumental human resources. But unfortunately, all of these I have mentioned are lying waste and prostrate.

You cannot deny Boko Haram, you cannot deny the ethnic strife across Nigeria, issues about marginalization, economic decline, unemployment and wastage of the youths. One would be tempted to say that perhaps we are going through one of the most depressing times.

The report of the National Bureau of Statistics just came out indicting the Nigerian state for impoverishing over 60 per cent of her population. In other words, in our country of about 160 million people, about 110 million live in extreme poverty. Nigeria is a case waiting to explode and the contrast is that we are such a rich country-natural resources, oil wells but we just came out of the subsidy problem. Corruption has prevented the leadership of Nigeria from directing the resources to the intended purpose.

Each time you hear funds deployed in billions to do one thing or the other but you will never see the result. It does not matter whether it is the Nigerian Integrated Power Project (NIPP), water projects or whatever. As a Nigerian, definitely I cannot feel good about it. To be honest, I could say I am privileged and I am not immediately, personally and directly easily affected but if I look at the environment I come from, if I eat rice, my driver cannot and it makes one very sad. When a person is sick, he finds that he needs to go and take medical treatment but what our leaders fail to understand is that our country is sick. A time has come when our leaders-not just those of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP)- should declare a state of emergency over Nigeria. When the president of the United States of America was elected and he met the economic crisis in his country, he rolled up his sleeve and got down to work. He started to deal with job creation but here, you do not see our leaders showing such passion to change things. You do not see those who voluntarily come out to seek power to do something. When they just seize power, they just go home. They do not even remember that they owe the people any responsibility based on the campaign promises they made.

But with this picture you have painted, do you think this country has a future?
I think it does because I do not believe that Nigeria can physically collapse. But the challenge the country is facing is in development whether in football, infrastructure etc. I do not see the possibility of a break up of Nigeria but it is an issue that we should keep in mind. How far we can go, I cannot determine; I will also rule out the possibility of Nigeria declining to the situation in Sudan or Somalia but Boko Haram has shown that it is not impossible. Remember that America predicted that Nigeria would break up in 2015. We should not play with what is happening in the country.

We should make conscious effort to arrest the declining fortunes of Nigeria. Right now, the southern and northern parts of Nigeria are almost separated. This is because few people in the south would go to Kano State for instance. Not many people in their right senses from the south would go to Maiduguri. Few people from the south would go to the north. This is to be honest with you and that should be a cause for concern for every Nigerian that a southerner no longer feels safe to go to the north. So the leadership should address the situation. Whatever it would take to do so-whether it would take the Sovereign National Conference to do so or for the National Assembly to initiate discussions, it is ok. But I know that it goes beyond the constitution. It is a leadership thing. There are a lot of resources in Nigeria that can be used to address the problems.

Looking at the issue of Boko Haram holistically, what would you say is the problem?
There are many narratives to the Boko Haram sect just as there are many narratives to the issue of Biafra for the Igbo people. Boko Haram is derived from fundamental belief in Islam which the Islamic movement rejects. You recall that Boko Haram is not the first flashpoint in Islamic fundamentalism. We had El-Zaky Zaky, Maitasine but at that time, the national trend did not support it for the fundamental sect to move forward. So, they were isolated and put down. Boko Haram has taken a number of dimensions. First of all is the extreme poverty in the North East in particular. The North East and North West are the poorest regions in Nigeria and it is not surprising that Boko Haram could rise in the shape of the Almajiris and the political atmosphere and leadership provide no alternative to the situation.

The same narrative occurs in the South East which is the Biafran spirit. The Biafran spirit speaks of marginalization and discrimination and I have filed the case in court. My question is why should the South East have five states. The Biafran spirit also finds radical expression in Chief Ralph Uwazurike but that is not seen as the correct trend. But I saw a clear attempt to isolate the Movement for the Sovereign State of Biafra (MASSOB) in the context of Ojukwu’s burial. The South West has the Oodua Peoples Congress (OPC) and it has been formalized by the South West political structures who have one goal in mind which is the political and economic integration including the possibility of autonomy.

That is why Ondo State is a flashpoint and the Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN) wants to capture Ondo by all means. The South South has had its expression in series of unfulfilled promises going back to Willinks Commission and the killing of Saro Wiwa and all of that led to the Niger Delta Ministry, Amnesty programme, Niger Delta Development Commission (NDDC) etc. So, what I am saying is that Boko Haram is not an entirely religious thing because it has political, economic and other motives. It is not by accident that Niger State governor, Babangida Aliu now speaks of marginalization in terms of capital budget resources allocation rather than in the South East. If any zone should talk about marginalization, it is the South East. But that tells you the importance of the loss of power in the north. Therefore, there are a lot of elements linked to create the situation you see in the north like the issue of Boko Haram. But in the type of context I am describing, we need astute political leadership. We need a leader who would be able to maneuver very many interests; otherwise, what we would have is continuous decline. And if we have a continuous decline, I am afraid that the scenario of a failed state would present itself.

Are you saying that there is a tacit approval for the Boko Haram sect by the northern power elite?
I would not go as far as what you have said but that is a very serious possibility. But there is an acknowledgment of extreme poverty in the north fueling Boko Haram and that is what the governor of Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN), Lamido Sanusi said. He said that much in the interview he granted Financial Times which I accept. Let us not kid ourselves, there is extreme poverty in the north. What he said may be politically incorrect but is the absolute truth. I saw it when I was the president of Nigerian Bar Association (NBA) when we used to visit northern leaders.

It happened particularly when we visited the Shehu of Borno and there were about 3000 Almajiris around his palace just to welcome us. One of them was so poor that he requested me to give him some money. That is the admission for Boko Haram but if they had an alternative, it would have been different. We need a political plan to deal with the situation. So, let us not say, it is Muslims and all that because it would not solve the problem. If I were the president of Nigeria, I would address the Boko Haram issue by a development agenda. It has the same feature as the South South problem. It is no longer a religious uprising. It has gone beyond that.
You are talking about a development agenda to address the problems in the north but the South East is also suffering from the same level of neglect by the government. The only difference is that people of the South East are more enterprising.

You have just used the right word. That is the difference. The difference is that in the South East, the system of enterprise has kept the people so that the poverty level you find in the north is not manifesting at the same level. But it is not an excuse at all. Ojukwu, late Ikemba of Nnewi’s death represents two things: For me as a former Biafran soldier, it closes the reconciliation which Gen Yakubu Gowon declared in 1970 which has finally been enacted. It is left for Igbo people to say the war is finally over. Secondly, it calls to question the leadership of the Igbo people about harnessing their political image towards a goal and one of the goals is the equalization which is that in order to appease the South East, it must have an additional state. The South East deserves another state. For me, the call for state creation is irrelevant except for the South East. Then the other thing is now that the South West is launching regional integration and cooperation programmes, do not ask me why the north is crying about marginalization. You in the South East, did they tie your mouth? Nobody has tied the mouths of our leaders rather what you see-I hope that will change-is collective and individual effort at political Igbo leadership whereas what we want to see is an institutional Igbo leadership so that they can present their problems commonly in spite of the republicanism that Igbo people profess. What has happened about our republicanism is enterprise but at the same time, the drawback is that when things happen to you, you have no voice to speak.

But generally, a great leadership would say how do I approach and harness the potentials of the type of ethnic, religious and ethnic divide we have so that the north can talk about agriculture and all the solid minerals that they have. The South East would talk about its coal, oil and gas. The East has the second largest oil and gas deposit in Nigeria. This is so that the different regions can express themselves from the power that has devolved from the centre to the state. That would be the major challenge. If I were the president of Nigeria, I would immediately tell myself that I have no business doing agriculture, providing basic education, Medicare etc. I will keep the functions of the Federal Government that has an over-aching relevance to all issues-defence, banking, justice, currency etc. I will dispense with the small issues which, because they are in my hands at the centre, they are causing such problems. If for instance, an issue like marriage is left for the states, basically for religion, if the South East during election is given a referendum like-do you want to be a Catholic State or Anglican State and they say they want to adopt Catholicism, that is their problem. The need to devolve power is the most crucial issue facing Nigeria.

Do you agree with those who insist that Boko Haram is a strategy by the power elite in the north to recapture power in 2015?
No, I do not agree because Boko Haram was there before now. What has happened is that it has been hijacked by other actors who have nothing to do with Boko Haram. Whether it has been hijacked is certainly an issue that every Nigerian is aware of. The group has been manipulated for political reasons which is why I refer to Babangida Aliyu statement on how resources are being distributed in the country. I would not say hijacked but Boko Haram has been manipulated for political ends.

I saw my good friend, Gani Adams in the newspaper with the Alake of Egba land. For me, it was very symbolic. Rather than allow Chief Ralph Uwazurike to stand with the governors, they chased him away, that is also symbolic. But the truth is that the contest for power in Nigeria is intense. Why? Because the gains are immense and that is why Obasanjo described it as do-or-die. The South East must be radicalized and that is a wake up call. Rather than be looking at Chelsea scoring me goals, I would think of how I would also score the goals.

I remember a brilliant statement by Kanu Nwankwo. Journalists asked him what are the chances of Nigeria winning the African cup; he said that the person that will win the African cup must prepare. In the case of politics, virtually all the regions have their strategies. Like I have said, I believe that the East is the most marginalized part of Nigeria but they must have a strategy for attaining presidential power. But do they have that right now? If I were the coach, I would say we do not have it but other regions have it. Like you know, the north feels rightly or wrongly that President Jonathan took their share. So, they are now positioning themselves for power and to be appeased. The South West was appeased with the election of Obasanjo following the June 12, 1993 crisis. The South-South has got their appeasement for marginalization through the election of President Jonathan. But what is the appeasement for the South East? That is a question which the people of South East should be asking themselves. This is because the contest of power at the highest level has started. Some already have their game plan but others do not have it.

With the passing on of late Biafran leader, Odumegwu Ojukwu, there is an obvious void in the leadership of Ndigbo. Who do you think would step into the shoes of Ojukwu in terms of becoming the rallying point for Ndigbo?
Who would step into the shoes of Ojukwu is for Igbo leaders to decide. I like what Senator Ben Obi said that you do not create an Igbo leader overnight. This is because even Ojukwu himself, it took a long time before he became an Igbo leader. There has to be an Igbo conscience organization-be it Ohanaeze, MASSOB, I do not know. A leader does not emerge from the blues. However, it is among the Igbo intelligentsia that you can get an Igbo leader. The challenge now is to organize such so that the potential can be adopted.

In the judiciary where you belong, many wonder whether it is because of the failure of that arm of government that the former governor of Delta State, James Ibori was convicted in United Kingdom when it was literally impossible to prosecute him here over allegations bordering on fraud while in office?
There are many reasons to that. All the answers to your questions, I have addressed them before. If the political leadership is basically corrupt (imagine if all of them are), then Ibori was a product of the political leadership and he would be protected. The second is the ineffectiveness of the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) in the anti-corruption campaign. I once invited one of the leading anti-corruption scholars and we produced a book based on the study of the world’s most corrupt countries.

And we identified an independent anti-corruption agency crucial to the fight against endemic corruption. If you have endemic malaria, you might need to take injection. So, the first thing is to recognise that Nigeria has endemic corruption. The EFCC requires to be reorganized. It will be very difficult for the EFCC to do three jobs at the same time- investigates, prosecutes and recover assets. In the UK, what they have as the EFCC, their work is purely investigation. You can see that if your work is only investigation, you would do it thoroughly. Here, they do everything and their prosecutorial skills are questionable with respect to them.

How can you charge somebody with 70 or 120 counts? The judge who handled the Ibori’s case in Delta, it was unfortunate for him that he got a bad name but he was right. The duty of the prosecutor is to prove the evidence to the judge. The EFCC just simply did not produce the evidence against Ibori. To convict somebody, it must be evident and not based on speculation. The EFCC needs to improve its skill at investigation and I recommend a new agency to deal with investigation. The first problem is caused by the judges. You saw what the president of NBA said that there is corruption in high places in the judiciary. In fact, there are a lot of issues here like in the case of Odili. For instance, I do not understand why they cannot try him.

When somebody is arrested by the EFCC, there is a lot of rigmarole, he is taken to court, put in the dock, there is media hype about it and the person gets bail and that is all. What Nigerians want is for these people who they know are corrupt to be jailed. We cannot move forward unless we begin to take drastic action.
Recently, you were appointed as a member of the Petroleum Task Force on Oil Revenue. Some believe that based on the calibre of the members, the committee will achieve results while others believe that it is a job for the boys. What is your take on that?

Well, I understand the cynicism of Nigerians about such committees. However, I would assume that having appointed me and other very credible people in the committee that we would be allowed to bring our experience and expertise to bear on the assignment. But what will prove critics wrong is if we take the issue of subsidy and resolve it.
I think that is a good way to tell Nigerians that we are serious. Personally, I do not believe that there is need for subsidy because I do not know what the price is.-Sunwp_posts

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Posted by admin on Mar 11 2012. Filed under North-Central, North-East, North-West, South-East, South-South, South-West. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry